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Oct. 9, 2022

Vivek Kumar: What is Gas Fee and Can it Be Eliminated? | Ep #026


Vivek Kumar - CBO at ZeroSwap, shares the story of his journey across the Web 3.0 space, clears some myths about gas fees, and shares how his project ZeroSwap is working towards eliminating gas fees for DeFi transactions across blockchains.

Resources:
Vivek on Twitter: https://twitter.com/_imavericks
Vivek on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vivekjolu
ZeroSwap Website: https://zeroswap.io
ZeroSwap on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ZeroSwapLabs
Transcript and Chapter Markers: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1968123/11466028

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Cheers,

Roy

Transcript

Vivek: 

When you try to enter into this industry, it's very important to identify or understand your personality and what are your strengths and weakness, because Web 3.0 is a very big space and you cannot be everywhere, like all the times, you have to pick your niche. You have to pick your skill, or you have to pick your area of interest and focus a lot into that.

Roy: 

Today on our podcast we have Vivek who is building a protocol, which is making gas less transactions possible across multiple chains as well. Vivek is going to be talking about ZeroSwap, which is a multi chain compatible, decentralized, exchange aggregator protocol, which is focusing on making these zero fees transactions possible. Hi everyone, this is your host Roy, and I welcome you again to a brand new episode of the MetaRoy Podcast. On this podcast, we like to break down the complexities of Web 3.0 and make understanding this space simple and fun. If you have tuned in for the first time, welcome, and if you have been following us for a while, welcome back and please subscribe to this podcast for any future episodes. Vivek thank you so much for joining us today, and it's my absolute pleasure to welcome you on this podcast. How are you doing?

Vivek: 

I'm good Prasant and I really appreciate that you took out some time to invite me for this session. I'm really looking forward to have a fruitful interaction with you and also Hi to all the audiences who will be watching this episode. So, yeah, I'm glad to be here.

Roy: 

Absolutely. It's my pleasure to have you on this podcast. So, Vivek, our audience would love to know your journey. So can you talk about your journey into the Web 3.0 space and how you got started? What were the things that you faced during your career journey? Can you briefly talk about that?

Vivek: 

So, before introducing about myself, you used a word that how I entered into Web 3.0 space. So it's a different story altogether. It was purely coincidence that it happened. But, to give you a formal introduction, my name is Vivek and I'm basically an engineering plus MBA graduate. After engineering, I worked for a few years in investment banking and consulting. So I worked as a consultant and also as an investment banker for few years. After that I did my Master's in Business Administration. Then I, again worked for a few years, and then I stumbled into Web 3.0. So I got actually introduced into Web 3.0 around 2019, and, I studied extensively about it. Then my first company happened. But it's been very fascinating and a rollercoaster ride after that. We basically building ZeroSwap into something which we have right now. And it's been a long journey, both from a Web 2.0 and Web 3.0 perspective. It's been roughly 10 years of experience, Web 2.0 plus Web 3.0 combined.

Roy: 

Awesome, awesome. So you also had a previous Web 3.0 project, right? Can you share that also as well with our audience.

Vivek: 

So my first Web 3.0 project actually happened was Rage Fan or rage.fan, depending upon how you want to say. The initial idea was very simple, that we wanted to bring fantasy sports under the ambit of blockchain. To give you a perspective that how it should or it would look like in reality, think of it like any fantasy sports right now we are having, So for example, Dream 11. Think that if Dream 11 comes to blockchain, how the scenario would look like. So that was actually the starting point. But as we moved forward into that, we brought a lot of aspects into that. So, for example, Sports NFT was the use case that we introduced into it. We also introduced our Daily Fantasy League into it. We also introduced something called Scramble. So it was an app where you go out in the physical world and try to hunt different Project tokens which actually is your reward. So the project is still live and it's doing pretty well so far.

Roy: 

Awesome. Awesome. Are you interested in sports? Are you a sports fan in general?

Vivek: 

Uh till school time, yes, I was very much interested into sports and I was actually involved also, but after school, specifically when I entered into this preparation for masters and all, and during the graduation time so this got something left behind. But I'm a big fan of tennis and cricket, so these are two sports I particularly follow a lot. So yeah, I think I can't be termed as hardcore sports player, but a good sports analyst and observer.

Roy: 

Amazing. Amazing. And now you are solving the gas problem over all of the blockchains that we have. Right? So for people who don't know what gas is, can you briefly tell them about what it is and why is it such a big problem in the blockchain space?

Vivek: 

So gas is nothing but an incentive given to people behind who invest their resources, which means in terms of their processing powers and their laptop, electricity in order to make your transaction a part of the blockchain. As simple as that. So depending upon the context you want to use as POW (Proof-of-Work) or POS (Proof-of-Stake), it can be done as, as mining fee or validator fee depending upon that. So in layman terms, it just incentive attached where you process your transaction and there are few guys sitting outside there who are eagerly waiting for these transactions to mine or validate and in return because they're investing their time, effort, resources, and they need to be incentivized. So this is in nutshell how gas is defined. We also have different terms, for example, transaction fee, gas fee. So all these are just, , interconnected things which actually tries to quantify that how much amount needs to be paid and how much work has been done. So it's basically a way to measure your work and accordingly compensate you for that.

Roy: 

Absolutely. And it is an important part of maintaining a blockchain, right? But again, somehow it has also been a concern for a lot of people investing in this space or doing transactions. Their question is like, my transactions is like $5. Why is my gas like $50? Right? Those kind of questions keep coming, that we keep hearing about. But also that created that market need for ZeroSwap as a product, right? So, can you tell us what your product does actually and how it actually works in reducing those gas fees?

Vivek: 

So it was year 2020, I guess. Ethereum came up with a proposal EIP-2771 in 2020 July August was the time. So the, the concept was basically meta transaction. So right now what is happening in general, what happens that when you try to do a swapping, your wallet directly interacts with the chain. So that is the regular mode of doing any transaction. But with the concept of meta transaction, what basically you try to do that you pass on that authority of conducting your transaction to a third party. And that extra party or the extra entity that comes into the picture is called ReLayer. So basically in meta transaction, that trusted party is responsible for paying the gas on your behalf and doing the transaction on your behalf. So this is how it happens. So instead of signing the transaction straight away, you actually sign a message and that entire message is basically the permission or the authority that you give to that party that, okay, you can conduct trade on my behalf. So that is the permission that you give. So this gasless mode is being conducted by using a concept called meta transaction that came back two years back as part of the EIP-2771. So on the bigger scale, we are trying to reduce the entry barrier for masses to facilitate a bigger adoption. So that is the bigger picture where we stand right now. And there are different ways a lot of projects are trying to do. They have different ways how they are approaching and we have our own approach. So we have B2B2C business model, which means, , businesses are our prime clientele, which in turn facilitates B2C segment. So retailers or users like you and me can interact with those protocols. So ZeroSwap is basically an infrastructure layer protocol, which is trying to make your cross-chain interactions very smooth, low cost, and also secure. So how we are trying to do it is just few of the modules that we have right now as we talked about that exchange aggregator that we have. So that is number one. We are also coming up with something called cross chain gases narrative, which means now you are interacting with multiple chains. But here, what will happen in the cross chain that you will be able to send your tokens and receive different tokens in different chain. So it'll be a bigger ambit, where a user will be able to facilitate or use this features. Now we are packaging this entire functionalities or the use case that we have tested right now, and we are very much ready to ship this for the B2B Projects. So suppose there is a project who thinks of that, why not we also do something similar to what ZeroSwap is doing. So they have two options. Either they can build this capability by themself or they can just come to us. It's a very modular approach. API integration, plug and play model. And depending upon the use cases, , you can integrate. So for example, it could be an NFT use case, it could be typical DeFi Lending Borrowing use case. So it's a very modular approach. , and it's basically a scalable model, so applicable to all the chains, cross chains, applicable to different sets of use cases where it can be implemented. So that's how we stand right now.

Roy: 

Got it. Got it. Essentially what ZeroSwap does, as you mentioned, the person taking the transaction, you take the transaction on their behalf, you make the transaction possible, and you pay the gas fees on their behalf, is my understanding correct?

Vivek: 

Correct. So they feed the order details. Those order details are captured somewhere and we'll talk about it more as we move forward. And based upon that order details, we call certain APIs, those APIs written, return the rates along with estimated fee. So we have two important information with us. One is the fee that is being estimated based on the transaction input that user has given, and also that how much needs to be returned back to user so that returning back part is taken care by the user. And that fee part is taken care by ZeroSwap. So it's basically a bootstrapped model.

Roy: 

Got it. Can you also talk about what is that incentive that ZeroSwap has for making that transaction possible?

Vivek: 

So we have different avenues of making revenue right now. It's, it's very understandable and logical on the front face or the first perception that if you are burning money, then how you're making money. Correct. So that is the first thing. But we have done a very thorough and careful extensive study and research based on the mathematical simulation. And we have come to a reasonable conclusion with a reasonable accuracy that this is fairly a sustainable business model, which can be extended or scaled for a longer duration plus various use cases. So you try to burn money on one front, which is the gas fee as, as you talked about, and you try to make money or the recoup money from the different aspects or the provisions that we have in place. And one of the provision that I can talk about is something called the positive slippage. So, positive slippage is you are expected to get something, but in actual in reality, you will get more. So a part of that could be translated or routed to, as part of the revenue and a part of that could be returned back to user. So it's a fairly balanced win-win situation in that case for both users and the platform like us where the money could be splitted between the users and the platform.

Roy: 

Got it. And since it's a meta transaction, there is also question of, security aspect coming in, right?

Vivek: 

It's a very controversial thing from a security and Web 3.0, but we are trying our best to make your platform as secure as possible. You can practice best practices. , you can have in place best audit mechanism. Just be vigilant, be aware and try to do the basic things, at least for the time being. Right. And that should help you to be safe for the time being. And we haven't seen as of now any security breach at ZeroSwap. It's been like more than one and a half year. We haven't seen any such cases and we hope so that we won't face such incident. And the reason is very simple that we try to do the fundamentals very right.

Roy: 

Got it. Got it. Can you also talk about the features that ZeroSwap offers, the products that you have? What are the features of the protocol? What is that B2B companies should partner with ZeroSwap with, can you talk about those as well?

Vivek: 

So the first, and, , the foremost thing is that it's a very modular approach, which means something like a SaaS model, software as a service. So you, you only use what you need. So if you go out and try to make utilities that we have made ourself. You can make yourself, but you will have a lot of upfront investment so that you want to cut down. And it's a very business decision that you have to take that, that either you need to outsource it or you have to make in-house. Depending upon the utility of the use case it's not very advisable if there are limitation in terms of the utility that you're trying to make, in that case it's advisable to outsource it. So, number one, it's very modular approach. Second thing is that it's a very scalable model because once you remove that barrier of paying that money or paying that fee, so, it's not about actually the money, it's about the dependency on something. Right now, It doesn't matter if you go out to Binance chain or any other chain, and the fee are very less, but you still need to hold that chain's token. And in order to secure that or in order to, , get that token, you need to find out a way. Maybe you'll go to the centralized exchange, buy some native token, then send that to your wallet, then you do the transaction. So if you think from another psychology or the user life cycle perspective, it's kind of irritating. Think of any scenario where for every content that you watch on Netflix, you will be made to pay some money. That money could be small, but that frustration of paying every time, approving transactions, every time, that is more irritating. So it has got less to do with the cost and more to do with making the entire journey as seamless as possible. It's also trying to reduce the entry barrier. So now you can be assured that you don't need to hold that token. It's not about the quantum of the money, but it's about reducing the number of the steps. So that is number two. Number three is that we are trying to reduce the entry barrier, which means there is no KYC attached to it. Accessibility gets bigger and bigger. Now that you don't have to hold those tokens, which means you can try out as many protocols as possible and in this manner you will end up using those protocols. And who knows that you might be actually interested or you might not have even heard about that protocol. Okay, So this protocol actually is very good. And same thing is applicable to the B2B side also, that now more and more users are using your protocol, there is a higher chance of retaining those customer for the longer duration. So if you put or plug this smaller pieces all together. There is a lot of value add for B2B and B2C, both, which they can extract out of this business model that we have in place.

Roy: 

Got it. Got it. And , also you have integrated with a lot of blockchains as well, right? So is it right that if I hold your token and I can make transactions possible across all of these different chains, is that how it works?

Vivek: 

So, okay, so I'll break that into two parts. So one part is ZeroSwap token or the $ZEE basically as we call it. And there are other tokens. So, depending upon which chain or the tokens where they have the liquidity or where they have compatible with chains you should be able to transact freely. And right now we are integrated with seven chains, EVM chains right now. So depending upon the tokens, which this support, you should be able to do that transaction. Now in a specific to the $ZEE or the ZeroSwap token, we are present across Ethereum, Polygon, Binance, and Avalanche. So you should be able to do that right in these chains.

Roy: 

Got it. Got it. And what are the tokenomics of the $ZEE token? Can you explain that as well? For our audience?

Vivek: 

So, the total supply is a hundred million. , in terms of supply side. Out of that around 64 million is already out in the market. And since we started late 2020, so by 2024 more than 98% of the tokens should be out in the market. We are very much balanced in terms of where we are present across centralized exchange and decentralized exchange. So that is already there. Distribution was fairly decent, investors, team, ecosystem or liquidity. So it's a very balanced distribution as a whole.

Roy: 

Awesome. And any protocol like this requires a team, right? So can you talk about how you build that team, where did you meet your other team members? How did you kind of ideate on this protocol and how did you start building it? Can you talk about the story of the team behind ZeroSwap?

Vivek: 

So the biggest strength of any startup or any idea that you take from ideation to execution is the team actually. And the flavor of a team is that everyone brings their different or unique skill sets and in totality or as a wholesome experience becomes very robust. So predominantly we have very rock solid tech guys. They're very experienced in terms of both Web 2.0 and Web 3.0, both. We have operations plus product being managed by very skillful lady, Aayushi Jain and the tech side is being managed by Chandra plus Punit. I'm responsible on the business side, so BD, partnerships, integrations, that is my forte. If you combine collectively, we all come from different background and experience, and that is what it makes a very wholesome experience. And , and we are a very competent team. So this is the core team I talked about. Now, if you talk about the second orbit of the people. So we have predominantly tech heavy team as of now, which is also, , requirement of the kind of business that we have. We have also very good full fledged marketing team. Operations is also sorted and business is also very organized. So it's a very balanced out team across all the business functions that we have right now and we are very fortunate enough to have a very diverse kind of people and who are very skillful, who can contribute a lot to, what we're doing.

Roy: 

Got it. And you also have a supportive community that I saw, right? Can you talk about the community that you have built as well ? Vivek: So we are across healthy community based there. Specifically in Twitter, we have two official channels. One is kept reserved for main things and all. And anything related to the community or ecosystem as a whole. We have a different channel for that. We are also building up our Discord channel very nicely and it's pacing very nicely. Telegram is also very active, so more or less we have covered, across all the predominant, social platforms. We are also very much active in LinkedIn right now. We have started leveraging that. So, yeah, it's a very vibrant community across the social channels and I think it'll keep on improvising more and more as we move more into the product, shipping to the B2B businesses and more adoption. Got it. Got it. One more resource that I would like to add is something that I personally follow myself is the ZeroSwap Weekly newsletter that you have. So if you haven't checked out the community or the newsletter, I'll put those links in the description so you can go and check that out as well.

Vivek: 

So that newsletter tries to aggregate all the good, , , happenings of the industry and we try to assimilate and provide you good quality, reading material, what has happened over a period of one week in the past. So it's a good digestive material to give it a shot over weekend or as per your convenience, and to keep yourself updated with the recent happenings in the industry, specifically in context of the multi chain narrative that we operate.

Roy: 

Absolutely. So one thing that I had a question about Vivek is about the interoperability aspect of it, and you touched upon it, like why it is so important, right? So why is interoperability such a big challenge? That is one. And what is the future of the blockchains as we see it? Is it going to be a multi chain future? Is it going to be one chain dominating all? What are your thoughts around the future of blockchains in general.

Vivek: 

In an utopian world or an ideal scenario, , there should be a provision that you should be able to migrate from one chain to another chain very freely, and you don't have to deploy a lot of resources into that. So, for example, as a user, I know that, My funds are stuck into this chain. My funds are stuck into that chain so that, , fragmentation actually is the problem. Where, so if I have, , limited in my cash thing, so I know that I can't withdraw my cash from there, or there are a lot of, , problem that how I can make my Ethereum side asset compatible with another chain compatible. So that seamless movement of assets and communication back and forth is something that will be there and that should be there. Now your other part of the question was that, is it few chains are going to dominate or not. So that's, it's more like a wait and watch kind of thing. But from a idealistic scenario, this is what it should happen. That we should have a provision or the platform or the facility that we should be able to migrate back and forth very freely. That assets should be compatible, with all the chains across. And when this starts happening, that is the time, in actuality where we will see that the bigger adoptions comes into the picture because we have limitation in the resources. And so if the resources are limited, then we will have to regularly innovate ourself and come up with the businesses or the ideas or the enhancement where it could be made possible.

Roy: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. And, one more question that I had, with respect to what ZeroSwap is doing is, gas fees, for example, did not change much after the Ethereum merge, right? So, , and everybody was expecting that some things will change, but actually that is going to be like a future prospect of what Ethereum will do and the process in which it is working out. Right. So you had mentioned about Sharding and all of those aspects. So what are the things that lie ahead for the Ethereum community or the Ethereum blockchain? Can you briefly talk about that as well? After the merge?

Vivek: 

Okay. I think a few of the misconceptions actually is that related to gas fee that has got nothing to do with the Ethereum merge. We all know about the facts that it's going to be from POW to POS which is proof of work to proof of stake, , but two things are going to happen. The first and foremost thing, when you transition from POW to POS, your energy consumption, you have been able to reduce by 99.5%. Now, this thing actually sends out a very clear and loud message to outside world. And that is, when you become environment friendly, you attract more and more users because it paints a very good picture that you are doing good for the environment. So what we can, we might see that more and more. Specifically from Web 2.0 Space, we might see that a lot of companies, a lot of ideas are penetrating into Web 3.0 space because of this green energy or the green environment concept. So that is positive vibe that it's going to create, number one, which means that it will facilitate adoption and scalability. Number two is that from security perspective, it's going to be better. So initially, if you talk in terms of the dollar value, in order to tamper the chain or what typically is known as 51% attack, the dollar value was required somewhere between $5-$6 billion to actually change things. Now that dollar equivalent has changed to $20 billion and it is expected to go higher and higher. And because of that arranging $20 billion is a herculean task as compared to $5 billion. And that is what will prevent from getting tampered. So as a user or as a business, when you see that security is better and also you are painting a good picture in terms of environment friendly. That is where you start showing your trust and interest both into this Web 3.0 space and that we might see good use cases that are the good players who might be coming from Web 2.0 and trying out certain use cases in the Web 3.0 space.

Roy: 

Got it. Vivek you have been building for so long. You had a 10 year journey from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0 as well, and the challenges that we have seen in the Indian context, right. With the, , with the restrictions that have been imposed in different ways on blockchain or maybe the crypto world. What is the biggest challenge that you have seen in your experience and why have we not yet moved completely to Web 3.0? What do you think could be some of the reasons for that?

Vivek: 

Okay. From a learning perspective, I think we still lack very much structured approach to it from a learning perspective or the learning material perspective, I think that is a big gap that needs to be filled. That is where a lot of scope is there to make substantial impact and improvement, both. From a B2B perspective, I think. Trust is something that really, this industry lacks trust because, on the day of recording, I don't want to mention the date and time. A big scam or the hack has happened, and this is the norm that is happening every few days or few weeks. So until, unless that trust, , building happens, it's going to be very difficult either for user or businesses both to put their money or the resources as a whole into this ecosystem. So, , something that we really need to address in order to see more Web 2.0 to Web 3.0, like migration and also user adoption.

Roy: 

Got it. Got it. And definitely, I think you brought out a big challenge these scams are actually creating that mistrust in the overall space. And, even though people are actively building this space, these news items that come out actually affect a lot of people who are interested here. You mentioned you moved from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0, right? So what was something that you did not expect as a challenge from a personal career perspective? What were some of the biggest challenges that you had?

Vivek: 

Availability of the resource material was number one thing, but apart from that, there is no any, platforms where I can go and seek advice. So, structured platform in terms of mentors, seniors, or industry experts where I can go to them and seek some sort of advice. I know that out of courtesy or out of goodwill, someone can do, but if there is some sort of platform or an organized structure where these kind of sessions or maybe expert mentorship or something in these sorts can happen. I think it'll serve two purpose. First in that it will help as a user or anyone to redirect their energy and focus at what exactly and how to approach. And also it opens up the opportunities once you are ready to be deployed into Web 3.0. So you need timing, you need connections, and you also need opportunity. So these kind of things actually opens up when you have good resource material to refer to. And also a network of people whom you can bank on or who you can reach out to for advice, for the opportunities, both. So this is something that I really felt that this was difficult. So for me it was a lot of grind work, a lot of hard work. Scattered distributed efforts because you also don't know that what you're doing is in the right direction or not. So it consumes a lot of energy, time, effort, and also, emotional aspect to attached to it.

Roy: 

Given a chance, would you make that same career choice again? Would you want to come into the Web 3.0 space again?

Vivek: 

I would say that I would take that decision much faster as compared to when I took, so it was around 2017, 2018 when I got introduced to this industry in terms of from a reading perspective or interest point of view. And from 2018 end or 2019 start. I seriously started considering as a mainstream career option, but given a chance, I would say that I would rather start much earlier when I started around 2016, 17, 18. So I would like to go a bit much earlier to start this just because of the merit of the concept that it offers as a blockchain and the scope of the use cases that it has. So we, at this point of time, I think, personally and professionally speaking, we are at just at the tip of the iceberg. And there is lot and lot more to explore or dig deeper, , to extract out of it. So if I would've been started earlier, I would've been at much, better in terms of learning, sense, awareness, sense of business and industry.

Roy: 

Got it. And, this is something that people keep asking me that, I'm too late, as you mentioned, right? You, you felt that 2017, you are too late to enter into Web 3.0, but for somebody who wants to enter it now, what would you suggest? How do they start or how do they kind of learn about it? What are the resources that should follow?

Vivek: 

So few years back, there was a scarcity in terms of both people and resources, but we have transitioned like three, four years, , after that. So that availability has increased, definitely both in terms of quantity and quality, both. So that should not be a big challenge. It's very important when you try to enter into this industry, it's very important to identify or understand your personality and what are your strengths and weakness, because Web 3.0 is a very big space and you cannot be everywhere, like all the times, you have to pick your niche. You have to pick your skill, or you have to pick your area of interest and focus a lot into that. So for the sake of discussion, let's pick DeFi for example. So DeFi has a lot of subsets, For example, it has DEX is one category. For example, lending and borrowing is another category. Yield rewards is another category. And so these are from the DeFi perspective. Now, if you go from infrastructure perspective, it has got something like tokenomics, so everything in itself is a very specialized line of work. So if you try that, okay, so I'll do this also, I'll do everything that's not going to happen. By the time you would realize you would be a bit frustrated with yourself because at the end of the day, you won't end up landing anywhere. So if you have some sort of clarity that where you want to invest your time and energy, that is going to give you a much better ROI in terms of output that you expect. So supply side is good right now as compared to what we had for years back. Apart from that, , if you have some sort of understanding about what you exactly want out of it and how you want to approach, I'm sure that it's going to give you a better output or ROI as compared to somewhat a directionless approach.

Roy: 

Absolutely. Would you consider that moment when you decided to move into Web 3.0, or you decided to make your career in this space? Would you consider that moment to be a life changing moment for yourself?

Vivek: 

I don't see it that way, that the life changing moment, but it's a new industry. I treat it as just like any other industry. Yes, it is, it's very promising, but it, it has got nothing to do with, life changing is something more to do with inner self than outer self. But I treat as just like any other industry. Just think of it like a financial services, which was 200 years back from Web 3.0 perspective. We are at the start of that 200 years of journey at the start. So it's a fresh new industry. A lot of things will kind of undergo a lot of change. Some players will cease to exist. New players will emerge. And it's a typical life cycle of an industry that happens and it's going to happen the same thing. And it has happened. And last, six, seven years that we have healthy traction that we have seen in the industry. It is trying to follow certain cycl ical nature. I just want to say that, it sounds very fascinating to be part of Web 3.0 space, but don't get, , dragged by just fascination of it. Try to add value to it. Try to do something substantial, something meaningful, which you can really be proud of. Saying Founder, Co-founder, any fancy designation is good, but at the end of the day, what really matters that how much value you are able to add. So always try to add value, depending upon where you are placed at, your entire life as a career into this blockchain industry. So that should be enough. So every day when I wake up, I always think that, okay, how I can do better than I did last day, and how much value I can add today and how I can make it better. So just, so that's it. Nothing, any rocket science or fancy lesson that I have in mind.

Roy: 

Absolutely. On that note Vivek, thank you so much for sharing these insights around different aspects around gas, around ZeroSwap, around your personal life as well. Where can our audience connect with you online and reach out to you?

Vivek: 

I'm pretty much active across channel, but in context of the Web 3.0, I think I'm very much active on Twitter. So Twitter is something that I'm very much responsive in terms of if you want to connect and speak with me. So, from platform per se, Twitter should be the best and the ideal place to reach out to.

Roy: 

Absolutely. And, Vivek shares a lot of Twitter threads around different topics in terms of deep diving into those aspects. So you can go check his Twitter profile out. I'll put the links in the description again for you to follow and connect with Vivek.

Vivek: 

So it goes back to the same thing, which actually a few minutes back that we were discussing that, I try to study few things, but try to study in deep. So if someone is spending some time, , into something that I'm sharing, they should be able to extract something out of it. And there should be something for everyone.

Roy: 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Anyways, thank you so much, Vivek, for sharing these insights with us and our audiences would be really happy to understand your journey. So this is going to be a great podcast for them. Thank you so much for your time today and I wish you all the best.

Vivek: 

Thank you Prasant. , I really had a very good time. I hope when this goes out to the audience, they should be able to get something out of it. And it was an absolute honor and pleasure both to be part of your show. Thank you for having me.

Roy: 

Thank you.

Vivek Kumar Profile Photo

Vivek Kumar

CBO

Vivek is currently the Chief Business Officer (CBO) of Zeroswap, a Web3 infrastructure solution provider for seamless & secure cross-chain bridging & swapping experiences. Prior to this, he co-founded Rage.Fan, a Fantasy sports & NFT platform. Prior to entering the Web3 space, he worked in Management Consulting and Investment Banking, assisting several large clients in their business use cases & problems. Vivek holds an engineering degree and is also an MBA graduate from IIM Shillong and IESEG School of Management, Paris. He is an avid reader and an explorer.